Oh, dear.

[sisyphusshrugged]

Spalding Grey was found in the East River (upriver from the route of the Staten Island ferry).

What a shame.

If you're thinking about suicide, please think about this first: if you're such a complete loss as a human being, what on earth makes you think you understand the situation better than the people who love you?

Self-immolation is the refined essence of hubris. If you're such a total debit to humanity that you don't deserve to be here, your loved ones' feelings are better informed than yours, is it not so?

God, this pisses me off.

Comments

[shelleybear.livejournal.com]

Leaving two children and one step child.
His wife.
Thousands of fans who will miss his great talent.
Son of a bitch!

[(Anonymous)]

This is the third time I've seen someone express anger at Spalding Gray for committing suicide.

His best friend has a blog. Read about what Gray was going through before his death:
1 (http://barlow.typepad.com/barlowfriendz/2004/01/is_spalding_gra.html), 2 (http://barlow.typepad.com/barlowfriendz/2004/01/coda.html), 3 (http://barlow.typepad.com/barlowfriendz/2004/01/hecklers_at_a_f.html), 4 (http://barlow.typepad.com/barlowfriendz/2004/01/depression_and_.html).

The man died of a hideously painful disease. I can't find it in me to be angry at *him*.

[jmhm.livejournal.com]

with all due respect, she stuck with him, and I think he was a coward for not sticking with her.

[jmhm.livejournal.com]

OK, I read the posts.

How romantic.

I do hope the people who built their lives with the man arent so indelicate as to be all tacky about it, just like Mr. Barlow suggests they shouldnt.

What a friend of the family he must be.

[serenada.livejournal.com]

If you're such a total debit to humanity that you don't deserve to be here, your loved ones' feelings are better informed than yours, is it not so?

Maybe it's not that you don't deserve to be here, but that it hurts so much that you can't see straight, can't breathe, can't love, can't hear what the people who love you are telling you.

I would be very sad if someone I loved made the decision to die because of something like the above, but I would never tell them they had to keep waking up every morning feeling that way. It's not my place, and in the end, my pain is second-hand in comparison.

My love isn't enough for anyone to live on.

[cordiloquy.livejournal.com]

Well said.

The instinct to escape unbearable pain has nothing to do with hubris.

[jmhm.livejournal.com]

oh, hooey. The man has been preening his depression for years. You make babies, you fight for yourself or youre a goddamn coward.

[cordiloquy.livejournal.com]

Cowardice, maybe; arrogance, no. And it's possible to "fight for yourself" and lose, especially when you're dealing with a debilitating mental illness.

Really, I couldn't care less about Spalding Gray or his career. I posted in response to your generalization that suicide is "the refined essense of hubris." If you don't want to defend that, fine, but emoting about his kids doesn't constitute an argument.

[jmhm.livejournal.com]

Yes, arrogance. He made a commitment and then he unilaterally abrogated it. That is arrogant.

Perhaps the form of argument you want is down the hall < /montypython >

[jmhm.livejournal.com]

Hey, if someone wants to make the decision to treat their fatalism as an admirable and interesting quirk and not fight it, mazel tov, although he had no fucking business having children if he wasnt willing to stick to them.

[serenada.livejournal.com]

Admirable and interesting and quirk are your words, not mine.

I think people shouldn't be able to divorce once they're married, not fall out of love once they're in, not discover they're lousy parents after the kids are born, and not suffer unbearable pain.

See how well that belief system is working out?

However, my need for someone to be alive is less important than their ability to be alive.

It's an infinitely more personally painful version of "staying together for the kids" and doesn't everyone pooh-pooh that these days?

[jmhm.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately, he decided to be in intolerable pain.

If he was going to have children, it was his responsibility to get his ass to a place where they eat with plastic silverware, not wallow in the shit until he tipped over the brink.

He chose. He chose children, and then he chose not to change anything about his life that was dragging him down, and then he chose to die.

[serenada.livejournal.com]

he decided to be in intolerable pain

Chose is a difficult word. I don't think either of us know what he chose, versus what happened, or was result of an external influence.

Intolerable pain happens. Not everything is curable, not for everyone.

[jmhm.livejournal.com]

well, he surely didnt choose not to, which if hes got attempts behind him is the same thing.

[(Anonymous)]

As a mother I agree that suicide is cowardly and the height of self-absortion.

But as someone with a life-long connection with physicians who help people overcome the neurological/physiological effects of severe head and spine injuries, I think you should turn your disappointment elsewhere. My anger flows toward the surgeons who persuaded Spalding they could play God by breaking what remained of the connection between the facial bones and the center of the skull and repositioning it. I cannot imagine a worse scenario for completely disrupting the physiology and psychological well-being of a living creature. His suicide under those circumstances does not surprise me in the least.

scylla in portland

[jmhm.livejournal.com]

It does sound as if they made a dreadful decision (although presumably they did explain the possible consequences to him)

I'm not saying that he didn't have a lot of problems. I'm just saying that if taking the easy way out is an option you feel you should have, you shouldn't have kids.

[(Anonymous)]

I hear you--My guess is that they did not fully understand the consequences themsleves, but saw an opportunity to do a notable surgical procedure. Although I'm sure they believed there was a chance it would help.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of very skilled surgeons out there who do not have adequate training in neuro-physiology. They just don't get it, and it is not required.

Just last year, my father had colon surgery done with the latest techniques--tiny incisions, little cameras, you know the drill. Unfortunately, the bright young surgeon who was so pleased with his work, had not bothered to consult with my father's primary care or nephrologist to come up with a post-surgery plan for managing the predictable swings in his blood pressure--he has been on a very sophisticated cocktail of pharmaceuticals to manage high blood pressure for years. The surgeon left town to go on vacation right after the surgery, leaving a partner surgeon in charge, who knew even less about managing blood pressure. My father almost died...it took several days for them to hear what we were begging for, and contact and bring in the nephrologist who began to manage him back into a stable state.

regards--scylla in portland